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Language: en

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This is the Technical Difficulties,
we're playing Citation Needed.

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Joining me today, he reads books you know,
it's Chris Joel.

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Everybody's favourite Gary Brannan,
Gary Brannan.

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"All I'm gonna tell you is the whole thing will need ripping out, burning, and starting again, Vicar."

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And the bounciest man on the Internet, Matt Gray

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Insert soliloquy here...

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Thanks Matt.

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In front of me I've got an article from 
Wikipedia and these folks can't see it.

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Every fact they get right is a a point and a ding [DING].

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And there's a special prize for
particularly good answers which is

11
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And today was are talking about
Camille Flammarion.

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Hello foreign parts.

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-Yes... absolutely.
-Hello.

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Any guesses as to which foreign part?

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"France"?

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Point. Straight off the bat. [DING] Yes.

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And the wheel spins
and lands on France!

18
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Again!

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The wheel is 50% France.

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"France... rest of the world."

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Flammarion?

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Flammarion.

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OK, we are going to need an occupation here.

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Yeah, we are. Astronomer and author.

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It's a long article, so I'm happy to give you that.

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Astr-author?

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Astr-author. Yes, he was a-str-author.

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So he wrote books about astronomy, 
that were either fact or fiction.

29
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Well that's the thing. They were both. 
I'm going to give you a point. [DING]

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"Faction!"

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Isn't that just lies?

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Oh! Faction is already a word.

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He wrote both science fiction and popular science

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God, I hope he didn't get those two mixed up.

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Ah! Yes, well, funny you should mention that, Gary.

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"I have the manuscripts here of my
important scientific work...

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"and my one here about men with 
bum-faces from Venus.

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"But they both went to the same printer
 on the same day, in the same envelope!"

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"We can completely agree with Professor whatever..."

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-Flammarion!
-Flammarion.

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He was not a professor.

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"...on gravitational waves, but the bum faced goats from Mars, are a completely different concept."

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I mean, I'm not going to give you
 bum faced aliens from Mars

44
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-But I will...
-Well, there's a first!

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I am going to give you a point for Mars [DING]
He was one of the people who...

46
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Canals on Mars?

47
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-Point! [DING] Absolutely right.
-There we go!

48
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Percival Lowell in America, was the
 one who came up with the theory.

49
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But yes, he thought there were artificial canals on Mars.

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What? For boating?

51
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Yeah! Big, big canal boating system.

52
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Big recreational holiday market out there, to be honest.

53
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Go to Mars. Get a narrowboat.

54
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Pootle along the canals of Mars.

55
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At a gentle four miles per Mars hour.

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The canals on Mars were actually what?

57
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Motorways.

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Just rain covered motorways. When they looked at them through the telescope, the light glinted off them.

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-It was an easy mistake. Anyone could have made it.
-Swans landing on it, all the time.

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All the bloody time.

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Cobwebs on the telescope?

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Erm... not quite.

63
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Not quite.

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They were natural formations, weren't they?

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No!

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No, not at all. 
And they weren't artificial formations either.

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So they weren't formations at all!

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I will give you a point. [DING]

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Can you explain what they were?

70
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No!

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I was just being a pedant about what you'd said.

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There are two possible explanations for the canals.

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-One...
-They're canals!

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OK, there are three...

75
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But one of them was definitely wrong.
 There are still two, that are... possibly...

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One is that there was a formation... 
something they saw, they misinterpreted.

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The other...

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is an optical illusion.

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Like the one when you go to the fair and you walk in and the mirror makes you look all small and fat?

80
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Yeah, that it made a load of...

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Watch it! Watch it, watch it... 
Watch it!

82
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It made a load of points look like lines that
connected up, through a slightly dodgy telescope.

83
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But! Why canals?

84
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It could have been rivers or...

85
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-They were straight lines.
-They were very straight.

86
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So they looked more like canals than rivers.

87
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So they looked like irrigation canals.

88
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You know what? If I had the ability to do
one gigantic s***-stirring effort

89
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I would now transport myself to Mars...
with a canal boat!

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Just be there waving.

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No. Put it out on Mars and half bury it, 
like it's been there a long time.

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When the next Mars rover comes over the hill.
"Holy s***!"

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I suppose the Curiosity rover's the size of a big car.

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Yeah!

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So if you make it shorter and longer, 
it's a narrowboat rover.

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If you just put, I don't know, some...

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expanding foam sealant around the windows and doors. I'm sure it would be airtight enough.

98
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I mean let's face it, the moon lander was
 made of tin foil. A canal boat's way stronger!

99
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Hello NASA?

100
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Yes, it's Matt Gray.

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Put narrowboats on Mars.

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They've gone.

103
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See, this is how the world gets sorted.

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Yeah! Matt Gray.

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"Hello World Organisation, it is Matt Gray!"

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So... Flammarion was...

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I'm going to try...
I'm going to try.

108
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I'm not even off tangent. 
We're talking about canals on Mars.

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Yeah, yeah!

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Oh yeah!

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This is perfectly on stream!

112
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How did we stay relevant?!

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It's a skill!

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I dunno? Six years later, how are we still relevant?

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Flammarion was both scientist and...
 very much not a scientist.

116
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So he was exposed to
two very different lines of thought.

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One of them was very much scientific method.
Who in his era would have been

118
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the person, standing at the front of,
"this is science against religion"?

119
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The chief scientist?

120
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Darwin!

121
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Point. [DING] Exactly right. 
And then on the other hand,

122
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the rising popularity of what
less scientific movement?

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Roller skating?

124
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Not really... 
I mean, it is a movement!

125
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Very movement! Straight line,
forwards or backwards. Yes.

126
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Bowel?

127
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Not a bowel movement! No, we're not having...

128
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Chris, save us!

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Cubism?

130
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Way too early.

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I don't know!

132
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Spiritualism.

133
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-The idea that...
-"Knock three times...."

134
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Yes, the idea that you could talk to the dead.

135
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So he was astronomer, mystic and story teller.
In a time when...

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Liar, liar... and liar!

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No, astronomer!

138
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This is the thing. This is where astronomy and astrology
hadn't quite sorted each other out yet.

139
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Diverged, yeah.

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So in 1907, he wrote that dwellers on Mars
had tried to communicate with the Earth.

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Naturally.

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And also that what was heading towards Earth?

143
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-Cylinders...
-Following cylinders!

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No one would have believed in the last
 years of the nineteenth century

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that canals on Mars were being observed...

146
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No. Not in this case.
Something from a little bit further out.

147
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Asteroid?

148
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Asteroid.

149
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Aste... Uranus?!

150
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You're very close with asteroid.

151
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Comet?

152
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Point! [DING] for that. Comet is absolutely right.

153
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A seven tailed comet.

154
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Are you sure that's not just a very
 badly focused telescope again?

155
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Well that was the thing, yes!

156
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It seems to be swirling in a spiral!

157
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A small comet's seen, it did not have seven tails.

158
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"He's using the kaleidoscope again, isn't he?"

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They are in a formation, where there
 is one at the top, one on each side...

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and there is an upside down one at the bottom.

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Oh ****ing hell! Giant spiders in space!

162
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Along those lines, 1910, what
astronomical event revisited us?

163
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Halley's.

164
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Yeah, you got there first again, have a point. [DING]

165
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He caused a bit of a fuss, did Flammarion.

166
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Earth was actually going to pass through
 the tail of Halley's comet. For the first time.

167
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And we also, for the first time, had
spectroscopic data on what it was composed of.

168
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So they looked at the light coming
out of it, to find out what...

169
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To find out what elements and what stuff
was in the tail, that Earth was going to pass through.

170
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I'm surprised they could do that then.

171
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Yep! 1910.

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It's the first time they were able to do it.
 So it was a close approach.

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We were passing through the tail.
What did Flammarion say...

174
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"We're all going to die!"

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Point! [DING]

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But how?

177
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Bearing in mind they now knew what the tail was composed of and what some of the stuff...

178
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Poisoning! Asphyxiation!

179
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Yes! Absolutely right. Poison gas.
 [DING]

180
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There was a cyanogen, which is (CN)₂.
There are brackets there, so it's 2 of each.

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Colourless, toxic gas.

182
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And apparently he thought
"well that's in the tail of the comet."

183
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"We're going to pass through the tail of the comet."

184
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"WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!"

185
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He was wrong.

186
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Hello!

187
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No way! Really?

188
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He said it would impregnate the atmosphere and possibly snuff out all life on the planet.

189
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Did he use the words 'snuff out'?

190
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Erm, I...

191
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-I hope so.
-Being French...

192
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"Ze snuff."

193
00:08:12.760 --> 00:08:14.400
I would have thought he would have done that in French.

194
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I believe that is a translation.

195
00:08:16.580 --> 00:08:17.980
"C'est buggered!"

196
00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:21.040
What did it cause?

197
00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:22.340
PANIC!

198
00:08:22.340 --> 00:08:24.400
To a certain extent. I'll give you a point. [DING]

199
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MILD DISQUIET!

200
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.220
Witty headlines!

201
00:08:28.520 --> 00:08:30.340
A jump in sale of wine.

202
00:08:30.340 --> 00:08:31.880
A jump in the sale of something.

203
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Lifeboats?

204
00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:33.480
Umbrellas?

205
00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:34.080
Wills?

206
00:08:34.780 --> 00:08:35.500
Gas masks?

207
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Point.
[DING]

208
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Absolutely right. So in 1910, he essentially
caused a slight panic buy of gas masks.

209
00:08:41.560 --> 00:08:43.120
Could be handy a few years later, eh?

210
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-I refrained from making that joke.
-That's not unfair...

211
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:53.600
But yes, that was one of the things.
Then he wrote a series of science fiction books.

212
00:08:53.640 --> 00:08:57.160
One of which was called 'Real and Imaginary Worlds'.

213
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-I'm going to guess it was more imaginary than real.
-I can only think of one real one he knew anything about.

214
00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.180
And he was also wrong.

215
00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:09.680
Now we have talked about psychics,
 mediums and all this before

216
00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:10.520
Several times.

217
00:09:10.520 --> 00:09:13.960
Several times, but the approach 
here was somewhat different.

218
00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:16.880
So are we looking for the scientific analysis of ghosts?

219
00:09:16.880 --> 00:09:17.600
Point. [DING]

220
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.140
Yes, he was looking at it from the scientific method.

221
00:09:20.740 --> 00:09:24.280
And... for the time...  was remarkably skeptical.

222
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OK.

223
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There is a wonderful quote here.

224
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"It is infinitely to be regretted that we cannot trust the loyalty of mediums. They almost always cheat."

225
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How very dare he.

226
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That doesn't mean he didn't believe it.

227
00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:42.040
But he was certainly very skeptical about it.

228
00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:43.360
He thought they were doing it the wrong way?

229
00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:45.740
He thought it might be possible, but...

230
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What he needed wasn't a medium.

231
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And I know it would be very hard to find in France,

232
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but he needed a well done.

233
00:09:56.180 --> 00:09:58.780
I'm not biscuiting that! I'm just... I'm not!

234
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Oh come on, that's beautiful.

235
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That's good stuff.

236
00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:03.300
It's a rare thing in France.

237
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Have I mentioned before
I've actually been to a spiritualist service?

238
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-Is that like a church service?
-Yeah.

239
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.820
No, no, he just took his spiritualist in for a tune up(!)

240
00:10:14.980 --> 00:10:16.320
No... no!

241
00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:19.680
-I actually meant...
-"The readings are a bit off. They need..."

242
00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.920
-I meant this as a valid question.
-Yeah, as in...

243
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I went to be serviced by a spiritualist?

244
00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.640
No, no, I had a day...

245
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That's very different, Matt!

246
00:10:32.180 --> 00:10:34.220
I can tell you now, that's not what happened!

247
00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.660
No, no. I'd been out with a friend of mine.
I'd had a few. I will admit this. And I walked past.

248
00:10:39.660 --> 00:10:42.920
And there is a Spiritualist church, near where I lived.
 And there was a sign in the window saying...

249
00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.280
"Display of Mediumship Tonight".

250
00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:47.700
And I thought... in for a laugh!

251
00:10:47.980 --> 00:10:48.620
Yeah, OK.

252
00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:52.540
So I snuck in. I went up, and in the first
 row of this building. It was like this... church!

253
00:10:52.540 --> 00:10:55.800
They had fitted it out with pews
 and a pulpit and an altar and the lot!

254
00:10:56.060 --> 00:10:58.560
And this bloke was stood in the pulpit, doing...

255
00:10:58.900 --> 00:11:03.180
effectively, live spiritualist... this was the big religion of the early 20th century.

256
00:11:03.180 --> 00:11:06.280
This even took in Rudyard Kipling
 after his son was killed.

257
00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:10.180
There were thousands. People were really
 into it and it still hangs on in certain parts.

258
00:11:10.180 --> 00:11:11.260
Is this like the American stuff?

259
00:11:11.260 --> 00:11:14.480
Yeah, exactly the same, yeah.
But he's doing live. It was...

260
00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:15.720
s***!

261
00:11:16.020 --> 00:11:20.140
I can't put it any different, it was ####!

262
00:11:20.140 --> 00:11:22.620
I was expecting any other word there.

263
00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:28.440
I walked in. I thought, "OK, I'm... You know, there's lots of older ladies in there". And I thought, well, as the new...

264
00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:30.220
bloke in the room...

265
00:11:30.520 --> 00:11:32.200
if he wants to show off...

266
00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:33.500
he's going to pick on me.

267
00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:39.180
He could... I'd had a few. I'm open to anything,
 and if he could pick something out that...

268
00:11:39.380 --> 00:11:43.740
he doesn't know, I'll be genuinely impressed.
If nothing else, in his skill at cold reading.

269
00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:46.980
He just stood there, and this is a
mill town in the north of England...

270
00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:53.520
right, and goes... "Now, I'm... I'm getting the vision of someone... who worked... in a factory."

271
00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:57.420
"Maybe on some kind of cloth... machine?"

272
00:11:58.040 --> 00:11:59.880
"They were called... Edith."

273
00:11:59.900 --> 00:12:03.980
And at one point, someone would go "Oh yeah! Yeah, that's my sister's friend, when I was younger."

274
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.880
That...  far away...  a link!

275
00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:09.580
"Now! He's saying something about money."

276
00:12:10.040 --> 00:12:12.580
I mean... I could do this s***!

277
00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.660
"Is there a problem with..."
There was one were he said something like

278
00:12:15.660 --> 00:12:17.580
"Is there a problem with a child?"

279
00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:19.360
And she's kinda, "No!"

280
00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:23.220
"Erm? Oh, the readings are very fuzzy
 from the other side."

281
00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:26.380
"Is there a problem with children or young people at all?"

282
00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:27.540
"No?"

283
00:12:28.540 --> 00:12:29.840
"It's for the future!"

284
00:12:30.220 --> 00:12:31.820
Oh yes!

285
00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:33.540
And that's how you do it!

286
00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:37.240
At that point, I gave an audible "HA!" from the back.

287
00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:41.460
It was terrible. I could do it.

288
00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:44.660
Stand in front of a room. Say some old people's
 names. And if you get it wrong, just go

289
00:12:44.660 --> 00:12:47.120
"Oh, it'll make sense one day." and carry on!

290
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:48.720
Is this a religion?

291
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.240
Yeah! They sang hymns and everything at the end.

292
00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.540
Then had a glass of orange squash. wobbled out and got a samosa butty on the way home.

293
00:12:54.540 --> 00:12:55.280
And got what?

294
00:12:55.280 --> 00:12:56.180
A samosa butty.

295
00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:00.040
How northern is that phrase?

296
00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:05.100
It's a deep fried pastry, with spiced meat inside.

297
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:05.880
The Empire...

298
00:13:06.080 --> 00:03:48.100
In a bap!

359
00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:48.760
Yeah!

300
00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:10.020
-Bread roll, for those...
-In a bread roll, with a bit of mint sauce.

301
00:13:10.020 --> 00:13:12.060
The Empire made it to the north.

302
00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:14.340
That sounds nice. I want to try that now.

303
00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:15.360
It's beautiful!

304
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.720
Don't!  No... that's... no, that's double carbs, which I...

305
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:19.560
Chip butty!

306
00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:20.520
Burrito.

307
00:13:20.520 --> 00:03:48.100
Yeah, never mind.

359
00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:48.760
Yeah!

309
00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:23.820
-It's three!
-I withdraw my objection.

310
00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.980
The number of times I've come back, with a big
 splodge of yogurt sauce down my front after one.

311
00:13:26.980 --> 00:13:28.100
I'm sorry, what?

312
00:13:29.180 --> 00:13:32.300
-At least that's what I told the rest of you.
-After he'd been serviced by the Spiritualist.

313
00:13:33.700 --> 00:13:39.660
Seriously, Flammarion was simultaneously
 quite a believer and quite a skeptic.

314
00:13:39.660 --> 00:13:41.780
He was sure there was something.

315
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.500
But, as he looked at it, he kept finding
 it can't be that, it can't be that.

316
00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:46.520
Martians!

317
00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:48.160
Or... or Martians!

318
00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:49.560
Martian canal boat dwellers.

319
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:52.120
Beaming their thoughts down.

320
00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:56.580
Buy me a new pot plant or one of
 those nicely painted watering cans...

321
00:13:56.580 --> 00:13:57.520
Gonna say that.

322
00:13:57.540 --> 00:13:59.580
With a... with a plant in it.

323
00:13:59.760 --> 00:14:01.920
That's obviously from the north of Mars.

324
00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:04.920
Every planet has a north!
What can I tell you?

325
00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:10.960
It's kinda sad really, because he seems to
have had the scientific method and really...

326
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.180
both wants to prove it properly. Scientifically.

327
00:14:14.180 --> 00:14:16.440
And also really wants to believe, and is going,

328
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.720
"I'm just... there must be something there!"

329
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.640
And I'm going really high pitched. But you know?

330
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.620
Yep, that's absolutely the case.

331
00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:27.140
Had a massive influence on a number of people.

332
00:14:27.540 --> 00:14:30.340
And has quite a few things named after him.

333
00:14:30.580 --> 00:14:31.500
Any ideas?

334
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:32.760
Stars?

335
00:14:33.800 --> 00:14:35.460
- No...
- Comets?

336
00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:37.840
-Er... Asteroids?
-Yes! [DING]

337
00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:38.680
A ghost?!

338
00:14:38.900 --> 00:14:39.400
Ah...

339
00:14:39.800 --> 00:14:40.500
Well...

340
00:14:40.500 --> 00:03:48.100
His own ghost?!

359
00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:48.760
Yeah!

342
00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:43.420
It was incredibly convenient.

343
00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:48.200
Asteroids also named after his sister,
his niece, perhaps his first wife.

344
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:49.280
Did he name them?

345
00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:50.100
Er... No!

346
00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:50.720
Oh!

347
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.340
No he's just very well respected for what he did for astronomy and for science.

348
00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:59.440
And also, not canals on Mars,
what else is named on Mars?

349
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:00.100
Mountains?

350
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:02.300
Volcanoes?

351
00:15:02.300 --> 00:15:03.620
-The opposite...
-Valleys?

352
00:15:04.140 --> 00:15:05.100
-There's a word...
-Craters?

353
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:06.720
-Point [DING] Craters. Absolutely right.
-Holes!

354
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:07.640
Upside down hills.

355
00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:09.700
-Holes!
-Oh yes.

356
00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:10.780
Oh yes.

357
00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:13.800
As we Martians... I've said too much already!

358
00:15:16.060 --> 00:03:48.100
With that, congratulations Matt.
 You win this week's show.

359
00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:48.760
Yeah!

360
00:15:20.060 --> 00:15:24.640
You win a highly expensive summary
of the life of an American horror actor.

361
00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.440
It's Vincent Price's very pricey précis.

362
00:15:31.920 --> 00:00:06.280
With that, we say thank you to Chris Joel.

363
00:00:06.280 --> 00:15:35.220
Gary Brannan.

364
00:15:35.780 --> 00:15:36.720
Matt Gray.

365
00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:38.440
I've been Tom Scott and we'll see you next time.

366
00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:40.580
Just hit myself in the face.

367
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:42.600
Worth it.

368
00:15:42.760 --> 00:15:44.380
Whole day, worth it for that!

369
00:15:44.380 --> 00:15:46.380
[Translating these subtitles? Add your name here!]